Subscriber Discussion

IPVM Should Not Allow DIY Users To Ask Questions?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 05, 2018

So clearly from the posting about "what cameras should I choose for my home" has gotten a plethora of responses both helpful and unhelpful.  My response included in the "unhelpful" category due to the annoyance I believe occurs when you have someone that is not an installer or similar, decide to become a member and post. 

First, what do I find so annoying?  I think its bugs me that this non-industry person has joined a group to ask the most basics of questions that he/she could have asked his local installer(s) about to educate him/herself.  That's what I do when I need information about things I clearly know nothing of.  For instance, I needed sprinkler repair so I called a number of business sprinkler repair folks and talked to them.  They provided the information I needed AND THEN, I chose one of them to come do the repair for me.  Sure, there are lots of open sprinkler repair forums out there... I visited some of them.  It helped.  But I would not pay money to use a forum that is geared towards the pros that install that particular item.  That is probably the SECOND annoyance I find.  HEY... THIS IS MY POST.  I CAN STATE MY TWO CENTS.

And here is the other part of this... I have received a few calls (not many) from people just this poster asking me questions about cameras and alarm systems.  I honestly do not mind talking with them and I do not try and sell them anything.  I give them the best information I can possibly provide so that they can do with what they need.  I also encourage them to give me a call back if they run into trouble.  It's possible that IF the person has posted the question a bit differently such as "hi, I'm here to learn so please excuse my questions and I'll try not to ask a question that I should be asking my local installer".

So... how do you all feel about non-industry folks asking these specific types of questions (regarding their homes).  PERSONALLY, I feel like THOSE types of questions should be best asked to the local industry guys. 

(1)
JH
John Honovich
Jan 06, 2018
IPVM

Thanks for raising this topic.

Sure, there are lots of open sprinkler repair forums out there... I visited some of them. It helped. But I would not pay money to use a forum that is geared towards the pros that install that particular item.

I'd probably do the same.

On the other hand, there are fairly few DIY end users who join IPVM anyway and overall to our volume of discussions and conversations, DIY is quite limited.

I could understand if a lot of DIY posts came to dominate IPVM but I don't think that's going to happen, given that most DIY people are not interested in spending both significant time and money learning things.

IPVM is certainly not going to shift to a DIY focus so that's not a risk either.

(2)
Avatar
Brian Karas
Jan 06, 2018
IPVM

PERSONALLY, I feel like THOSE types of questions should be best asked to the local industry guys.

But is that really a good use of your time, or broadly speaking, integrators time? Answering a bunch of entry-level DIYer questions, and hoping you pick up enough business to justify the time investment? What would you realistically hope to close, 1 in every 10 or so?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 06, 2018

Sometimes Brian, you just have to help people without any self-serving intents.  Certainly if I started to receive call after call from DYI folks then I might have to politely decline.  On the other hand, a couple of minutes is not going to disrupt my schedule.

U
Undisclosed #2
Jan 06, 2018
IPVMU Certified

U1, you say not only that 

...it bugs me that this non-industry person has joined a group to ask the most basics of questions that he/she could have asked his local installer(s) about to educate him/herself.

but also that you

have received a few calls (not many) from people just [like] this poster asking me questions about cameras and alarm systems. I honestly do not mind talking with them and I do not try and sell them anything.

So is what you are saying that you personally don’t mind taking calls and answering questions from what are most likely non-revenue DIYers, but object to the same DIYer posting a stand-alone discussion, on IPVM, which no one need respond to unless so inclined?  

Outside of the ephemeral topic banner taking up space, is there any other direct irritation caused you by the DIY question?

If you are not looking to sell to DIY, wouldn’t you prefer they get their questions answered elsewhere, as opposed to calling you on the phone?

Also you mention that

I needed sprinkler repair so I called a number of business sprinkler repair folks and talked to them. They provided the information I needed AND THEN, I chose one of them to come do the repair for me. Sure, there are lots of open sprinkler repair forums out there... I visited some of them. It helped. But I would not pay money to use a forum that is geared towards the pros that install that particular item.

That makes sense.  By the same token, if you were to pay to join a sprinkler forum, I’d imagine the reason would be pretty extreme:

For instance, you might have had a couple local slammers rip you off, and really just want to ask multiple people without a vested interest in the outcome what your alternatives are.

With all the free security forums out there, a DIYer who ends up here probably has a tale to tell.  Maybe we should ask what circumstances drove them to make this non-trivial capital investment?

Regardless, we can also provide them this link right?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 06, 2018

First, let me state that I don't sell to residential customers. And, it doesn't take but a couple of minutes for me to answer a question or send them off in the right direction.  That really doesn't bother me... again, I am not inundated with these types of calls.  They are rare.

Secondly, it seems to me that if "righteous indignation" can afford to purchase an IPVM membership then he can afford more than a hikvision or dahua product.  IPVM is not inexpensive for the average joe blow person just wanting information.

But to answer your question... the blow-out of hikvision vs. dahua postings that followed is just ridiculous.  Each trying to state what brand was better as if they were competing for the person's business.  Granted, Sean has his business clearly promoted by his name.  Perhaps he thinks he will gain the business of "righteous" by his postings of pro-hikvision?  I don't know nor do I really care.  What I don't want to see is this becoming a regular thread on IPVM from other DIY'ers seeking information that they could easily get from their local PROFESSIONAL installers. 

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jan 06, 2018

Let me further state, that if Righteous had bought the membership, read the articles then selected brand A or B,  THEN posted that he was having issues and requested help, my reaction most certainly would have been different.  Or even if he posted and questioned what his LOCAL INSTALLER stated/quoted, just to verify, that would have been ok in my mind.

I find it odd that someone looking for information  pays a lot of money to ask "what kind of cameras should I get for my home". 

Am I suspicious?  Perhaps.  Has or does, IPVM vet any of the new members?  I don't have a clue.  At any rate, the link of local installers should have maybe been his first response.  Personally I had forgotten about it. 

U
Undisclosed #2
Jan 06, 2018
IPVMU Certified

I find it odd that someone looking for information pays a lot of money to ask "what kind of cameras should I get for my home".

Am I suspicious? Perhaps.

Well there’s a new angle.

Could it be a shill question?  It’s possible.  Related, it seems for going on several years now, every few months someone asks for a wireless camera that uses batteries and cellular connectivity.

Which could just be what it appears to be, especially since there never seems to be a knock-it-out-of-the-park response.

In the case of Righteous, the sheer amount of back story that have gone into his/her posts is indicative of a real situation, or else a very fertile manufacturer’s information.

But I agree, we need to be vigilant for subtle shilling.

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