This is a whole lot of Dahua products on display...
Shootout: Megapixel vs Analog Cameras
Published Mar 12, 2014 04:00 AM
*** **** **** ********** ****** **** a **********? *** ***** ********** ****** or ***** ***** *******, ****, ** any ****, **** *** *** *** higher **********?
** **** **** ******, ** *** head ** **** ******* **:
- ******
- ******
- ******
- ****
- ****
- *****
** ****** *-*** ********* *** ****** to ******** *** ********** / ******** many ***** ***** ******* ***.
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Questions ********
*** **** ****** *******:
- **** ** *** ***** ******* ********** between ****** *** ****** *******? *** and *****?
- **** ** *** ***** ******* ********** between ****** *** **** *******? *** and *****?
- **** ********** ** ***** ******* *** 'best' ****** ******** *** ** *******? Day *** *****?
- ** *** *** ** ** ****** at ****** *** *** ***** ** the '****' ****** ******, *** **** win?
- **** ******** **** *** ***** *** of **** ******* *****?
- **** ****** **** ******** / ******* have ** **** ****** *******?
Analog ****** ***********
*** *********, **** ***** ***** *** approximate **' *** ** *** *******.
** ***** ** ********* ****** ******* at ***** *** ******/*********** ** *** what ***********, ** ***, **** *******.
*** *** **. *** *** ****** Cameras
******** **** *** *** **. *** TVL, ** *** *** **** *********** ** *****, **** ** **** gains ** *** ****** *** ******. Some ******* ** *** *** ***** are **** ******* ** *** *** TVL ******, ****** ** ****** ** wash *** ******* **** *** *** TVL ******, ******** **** *******.
** *****, **** ** **, *** 700 *** ****** ******** ********** ****** details ** *** *******, **** ****** contrast ** *** **** *****.
*** *** **. **** ****** ******
****** **, ** ****** *** *** TVL ****** ******* * **** *****, both ******** ** ** **********. *** gains ** *** **** ****** *** noticeable, **** ******* **** *******, ** far ** **** * **. **** line *-* ** *** *** *** model. *** *******'* **** ** ********** clearer, ** ****, **** ******** **** detail ** *** ********.
** *** ***** **** ** **, the **** ****** ***** ******** ****** details **** **** ********** ** **** the **** ******* *** *****.
600 *** ****
** ******** * *** *** ****** camera (*** *-*** *******) ** *** 700 *** *** **** ****** *******, seen ** *** ********** *****. *** *** TVL ****** ****** ** **** ** produce **** ****** ** **** *** subjects **** *** **** ***** **** the *** *** ******, ******* ******* overall. Performance ******** ** *** **** ****** is *****, ****** **** * ** the **** ***** ** ****** ******* in *** **** *****, ***** **** characters ** **** * ** *** 600 *** ******* *** ********* ** discern.
Analog **. **
****, ** **** *** *** **** camera, *** *** ****** *********, ******* 720p *** ***** ** ** ******* in ***** ** **** *** *********** between ***** *** ************. *** ** cameras ****** ******* **** ******* **** 960H, **** **** ***** ******* ** the **** *****, *** **** ****** details ** *** *******'* ****.
*** **** ** **** ** *** light **** ** **, **** **** HD ******* ********* **** ******:
960H **. **** ***** *****
** ***** ** *** ** **** could ******* **** ** ** *** field ** ****, ** ******* *** 1080p ******'* ***** ** **** ** double **** ** *** **** ******. This ********** ***** *** ******** ***** of **** ** ****, ** **** as * **** **** ** *** subject. **** ****** **** ****, ***** ***** ***** out *** ****** ******, **** ****** details ** ******* *** *****.
960H ***** ** ****
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******* ** *******, ** *** *** that **** "**********" ********** ****** ** increase ** ******, **** ** **** lines ******* ** *** **** ***** than ** **. **** ********** ******** become **** ********* ** **** *** to **********:
960H **. ** ********
****** *** ******** ** ***** ***** with **** ****** ** *******, ** found * ******* ******** ** ****** when ********** *** ******* ** * 960H-rated ***, ******* ** ** ****/********. This ********** ***** *** **** ******, *** 960H *******, ***** ********* ** *** 960H ***, *** *****,******* ** *****. *******, ***** */* are ******* ** *** **** *** vs. */* ***** *** ** *****.
Overall ********** ***********
*** ***** *** **** ** *** all **** ******* **** ** ****, we've ******** *** ********* ***********, ** full *****:
*** *** *****:
***********
*** ******* **** ****** ***** ******* settings.
***** *** *** ****** ****** **** in **** ****:
- *-*** ******* *** *** ****** ******
- *-*** ******* *** *** ****** ******
- *-*** ******* *** *** ****** ******
- *-*** ******* **** ****** ******
- *-*** ******** **** ** ******
- ******** *.**-**-*** ***** ** ****** ******
**** ****:
- ***** *-******* **** ***
- ***** *-******* ** ***
Comments (29)
町田 英志
Mar 12, 2014JH
John Honovich
Mar 12, 2014U
Undisclosed #1
Mar 13, 2014町田 英志
Mar 13, 2014John, I wanted to see if there was possibility of using some other brands in distribution as comparison cameras. Example the Digital Watchdog, Speco, Clinton, or other cameras. Avigilon camera and Dahua cameras have been shown on various reports but few other cameras.
Maybe using one single model is simpler but having more cameras from different platforms will do better as a comparison. Hope this is helpful for the next shoot out.
JH
John Honovich
Mar 13, 2014Tim,
So far this year, (2.5 months) we've tested:
- ACTi
- Arecont
- Bosch
- D-Link
- Geovision
- Foscam
- Hikvision
- Honeywell
- Samsung
- Wodsee ($29 chinese camera)
In addition to Avigilon, Dahua, Axis, Sony, etc. and excluding the many other cameras in the low light ranking report.
We use many cameras from many different platforms.
We do not use your cameras (Lilin) because no one ever asks for them. Speco and Clinton are not even serious players in IP and rarely do people ask for them either.
We tested Q-See / Dahua since lots of people use them. The point of this report is not even about specific manufacturers but about general categorical differences.
町田 英志
Mar 13, 2014Hello John:
Thanks for the feedback. Do enjoy the test reports on the cameras tested. Would have more questions but I will post it on the discussion section.
Hal Bennick
Mar 13, 2014Clinton? Speco? Is this security for hipsters - find the least known brands possible?
WA
Wassim Abu-Zent
Mar 13, 2014I would be interested in seeing Lilin cameras tested out. Here is one vote
LS
Luis Sadio
Mar 13, 2014Hello John,
In image of all cameras side by side, can you please specify the field of view of each camera?
Ethan Ace
Mar 13, 2014Luis, FOV was approximately this for all cameras. We had to stagger cameras about 1-2' in a couple of cases to account for differences in lenses, but the width of the FOV was standardized. I've inserted this in the report as well.
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #2
Mar 13, 2014Good morning John, and thanks for the shootout. We do them here with some frequency. My question to you and to the industry is this. Why do IP or 1080p cameras "appear" to perform so poorly at night or low light? Is it just a matter of product maturation or is there something inherent in the devices, in your opinion?
Ethan Ace
Mar 13, 20141080p generally does perform worse in low light than lower resolution cameras, which you can see in a lot of our shootouts. Though the gap is narrowing somewhat, based on some recent cameras we're working with.
However, if you're looking at the comparisons above, it's because that specific camera adjusted exposure (not IR power in this case) differently than the others to compensate for the reflective objects (subject + chart) in the scene. The others simply did not adjust exposure as much.
JH
John Honovich
Mar 13, 2014Btw, 720p IP cameras do better than even top SD ones - see: Ranking IP Camera Low Light Performance
Jon Dillabaugh
Mar 13, 2014In the images above, the 1080p cams are listed as being an Avigilon cam, but the report states it was a Dahua cam. Can that be clarified please?
Ethan Ace
Mar 13, 2014MC
Margarita Castillo
Mar 13, 2014So is it safe to say that Q-See cameras are comparable to the other analog brands out there like panasonic, sony, etc.?
I have to admit, the 450TVL vs. 700TVL comparison is quite surprising. I expected a better images from the 700TVL over the 450.
Carl Lindgren
Mar 13, 2014Margarita,
That's because stated resolutions of greater than around 550TVL for analog cameras are doo doo. Most manufacturers "fudge" the numbers. One way they get away with it is by using a non-standard way of measuring TV lines. The proper way is to measure the number of vertical black and white bars that can be discerned in a square area of the screen whose width is equal to the total screen height. That was designed to eliminate differences caused by varying aspect ratios of monitors.
In an apparent effort to "one-up" the competition, some manufacturers decided to count lines across the entire width of the screen, which generated inflated resolution specs, and the rest followed suit. Hence the 700TVL spec is actually around 500TVL using the accepted NTSC (and PAL?) method (700/4*3=525).
My guess is that the 450TVL camera spec is rated using generally accepted measurements while the 700TVL camera uses the "inflated" method. That would explain the extremely minor resolution difference.
JH
John Honovich
Mar 14, 2014Carl, next week, we are testing a 900TVL, 'megapixel rated' analog camera. I know you and Todd Rockoff will love it....
We bought one just so we could do our own test and provide a real comparison between 'regular' analog, 900TVL and real megapixel.
Carl Lindgren
Mar 14, 2014Interesting, if only for a good chuckle. Seriously, even if the claim was true, HD analog would be useless without compatible DVRs and/or encoders.
MC
Margarita Castillo
Mar 14, 2014SL
Stephen Lefkowitz
Mar 13, 2014Back to basics; Just rating by Horizontal resolution is not telling the entire story. 960H has the Horizontal reoslution of the 700 lines per spec. but the total pixel count ( 960 H x 480V) is only 460,000 ( 0.5 MP).
The 720P and 1080P have increased vertical resolution ( more vertical pixels). In traditional analog we never discussed vertical resolution, only horizointal as most all cameras had 480 ( Theoretically 525) vertical lines.
With the advent of HD IP cameras vertical becomes an important part of the resolution component.
so a 720P is 1280 H x 720V ( 1 MP). 2X the pixels of the 960H and as importantly 50 percent more vertical resolution.
Then 1080P has 1920 H x 1080V ( 2MP) 4X the pixels of the 960H and as importantly 100 percent more vertical resolution.
JH
John Honovich
Mar 13, 2014"so a 720P is 1280 H x 720V ( 1 MP). 2X the pixels of the 960H and as importantly 50 percent more vertical resolution."
A third of the 'pixels' in a 960H camera are essentially faked. There's no additional information, the pixels are just spread out horizontally wider. In actually, it's far more than a 2x pixel increase.
TR
Tim Russell
Mar 13, 2014That 720p cam makes it hard to justify the 1080p. Consistently good pictures ...
Carl Lindgren
Mar 13, 2014I agree. In fact, to these eyes, the 720p camera gives a better picture in at least some of the tests than the 1080p camera.
UI
Undisclosed Integrator #3
Mar 13, 2014Would you consider Clinton to be equal to Speco? Just curious.
Hal Bennick
Mar 13, 2014I consider them both to be value based manufacturers. Not a lot of innovation, but affordable. I will say that in all my years in security, I've never seen a Clinton camera in use at an actual end user.
Jon Dillabaugh
Mar 13, 2014What we learned from speaking to Speco at ASIS Chicago was that they think IP is too hard for people to install and believe SDI is the only option. When their sales rep asked us if we were doing IP, we said yes. He replied with "it's a pain in the ass, right?" When we replied "not at all", his reply was "BULLSHIT! You know it's impossible!"
We left laughing our asses off!
Derek Ward
Mar 14, 2014Members, we added a section at the end of the report comparing 600 TVL to 700 TVL and 960H. As it turns out, the 600 TVL camera produces a sharper, clearer image than the 700TVL camera, while not appearing as washed out as the 960H.
Carl Lindgren
Mar 15, 2014Derek,
That jibes with my findings. It confirms that cameras should not be purchased on specs alone - there's just too much fudging by manufacturers. We prefer to test samples of each camera under consideration in real-life situations and judge by what performance a camera actually delivers, rather than its specs. Far too often, lower-spec'd cameras outperform those with higher specs.
Carl Lindgren
Mar 15, 2014Another source of annoyance: many analog camera manufacturers are discontinuing their SD cameras in favor of 960H. What they choose to conveniently ignore is that 960H requires compatible DVRs or encoders to deliver any benefit at all; and even then, the benefits are marginal, at best. Our favorite analog box camera, the inMotion 11S4N2D was replaced by them with the far-pricier 960H 11S9N2D, which would offer no benefits to us. Thankfully, inMotion agreed to continue importing the 11S4S2D if we placed large (100 camera) orders, though how long they will continue to offer that is anyone's guess.
I will broach the subject with them at ISC West.
UE
Undisclosed End User #4
May 06, 2014i can not see the picture in this artical, why?