Subscriber Discussion

What Independent Test Laboratories Test & Report To Verify Camera Specifications?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jun 22, 2016

Dear friends one of my client requires a test report from an independent testing lab conforming the performance of the IP cameras and VMS against the given specifications. Please tell me about the labs equipped to test the IP cameras, Software and the system as a whole for the performance.

JH
John Honovich
Jun 22, 2016
IPVM

1, I do not what would really be considered a 'lab' that does that. Also, I am not aware of anyone who markets such services.

That said, I am sure there are people / companies who do that. I have seen consultants and integrators do this on an ad hoc basis.

Related, do you want to test the IP cameras and VMS against competitive products or is this more of a spec by spec verification (i.e., spec says it can do 30fps, verify; spec says it can do 4 simultaneous streams, verify)?

UI
Undisclosed Integrator #1
Jun 22, 2016

Yes the client requires a spec by spec verification by an independent test laboratory.

JH
John Honovich
Jun 22, 2016
IPVM

Try Vlado?

It also depends if they really care about the results or just want a big name to rubber stamp. If the latter, maybe find a general networking or electronics lab?

There's not a lot of demand for this so probably part of the reason there are not a lot of options.

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Michael Silva
Jun 22, 2016
Silva Consultants

I am guessing that some of the Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories such as Intertek and MetLabs might be able to conduct this type of testing. These labs are often considered approved alternatives to Underwriters Laboratories (UL) and are often used for "one-off" testing of products such as custom control panels that need some type of approval to meet the requirements of code officials.

Your client might be shocked to find what this type of testing costs - it could easily run into the ten's of thousand of dollars or more.

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Rob Hammond
Jun 26, 2016
IPVMU Certified

I agree with Michael, a NRTL (Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory) may be interested in taking this on. I used them when I had to have a security system listed as a fire alarm (UL 864). They are very good at taking a standard, or in this case, a specification and creating a testing regime. I am not sure what the client will gain from the testing unless they have a few specific items that are critical to their operation that need to be validated. If that is the case, I would limit the testing to just the features that are of concern.

As Michael, says, it won't be cheap! It would be cheaper to buy the equipment (which they will have to anyway with an NRTL), and do their own testing. If they need a disinterested party, a good security consultant, as mentioned above, could be a good alternative.

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Mark Jones
Jun 26, 2016

Your customer obviously has a reason, but I would be interested in followup from you should this come to fruition. Are they willing to pay the cost, and it will be well into the thousands.

But I myself have a related question. Just this week we installed a popular and readily available IP camera with a well known NVR. Both are ONVIF. The NVR has a generic driver for the camera. You can guess my amazement when we installed the system and have no picture. To be honest, I am not surprised; to be equally as honest I would have been surprised if it had worked. I have very little faith in ONVIF compatibility standards. Is there any effort anywhere to develop a mandated specification? Customers (even more so than integrators) are going to continue to suffer without it. For those who want to see a very level playing field and take advantage of internet marketing, how much easier would it be with such a standard than what we have now?

U
Undisclosed #2
Jun 27, 2016

"Both are ONVIF."

Do you mean that you checked onfiv.org to see if both components you used were listed there - and they both were? And there was still no picture?

JH
John Honovich
Jun 27, 2016
IPVM

Mark, I'd second checking the ONVIF conformance directory. If they are both listed there, then odds are good it should work. Moreover, if they are both listed there, even if they do not, odds are good your NVR will make it work.

Can you report back with the details of the camera and NVR in question?

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Mark Jones
Jun 27, 2016

I did not. I have used their website before and find it pretty useless for the most part and there is nothing "mandated" about it. From the ONVIF website this morning, and I quote:

3.7 Restricted Liability of ONVIF Each Member is solely responsible to ensure conformance for all ONVIF Devices and ONVIF Clients for which the Member has declared conformance with the ONVIF specifications. The Member shall compile and maintain documentation on procedures and test results for each of those ONVIF Devices and ONVIF Clients. The Member shall provide this documentation upon request to ONVIF or its assigned representative for proof. The ONVIF organization has no liability for Members who claim conformance for ONVIF Devices and/or ONVIF Clients.

To further demonstrate my frustration:

3.8 Conformance Testing Services Neither the ONVIF organization nor its committees provide conformance testing services.

If and when the "industry" sits down with the FCC and develops true "standards" (which is what happened with RS170a in Analog) I will begin to have confidence in the products. ONVIF is by its own definition meaningless. And yes, I fully understand that in today's political and business climate, I will be waiting forever.

JH
John Honovich
Jun 27, 2016
IPVM

Mark, please, spend 2 minutes and verify it at ONVIF's site. It's not time consuming or hard to do so.

I well understand that it is not a guarantee but passing the conformance test significantly increases the odds of systems working and manufacturers spending efforts to make it work. ONVIF's biggest problem related to this is lack of commitment to stop manufacturers abusing / misusing their branding.

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Mark Jones
Jun 27, 2016

I appreciate the advice John. But when I have ONVIF in my hand from both parties why spend any time on the useless ONVIF website? This is exactly what I mean. They don't have any meaningful branding.

The most meaningful thing Integrators can do is stop using products that are untested. We have to demand that the manufacturers provide documentation that the devices have been lab tested and verified. Otherwise, your products will not be used in the field.

In this particular case, I have assurances up and down the line that the two were indeed compatible. Now the manufacturer wants us to pull and furnish logs, send multiple screen shots etc, to try and find out why they did not work. The next time a camera manufacturer comes out with camera model abcdefg Rev 1, we have to do it all over again.

I am not looking to call anyone out, nor start a day-long debate. I do understand your point. But my point is I have used that website and it is worthless to me.

Just voicing my frustration with the process.

JH
John Honovich
Jun 27, 2016
IPVM

Mark, so instead of spending 2 minutes to look up those products on their online tool, you spent more time arguing and hijacking this thread.

We can't help you if you can't do that. If you are so opposed to looking them up, just tell me what the models are and I will do it for you. I'd rather stop this back and forth which is wasting more time than actually going through the correct steps to find the solution.

Again, (1) look it up on the ONVIF tool, (2) tell me the products and I'll do it for you or (3) stop hijacking this thread.

U
Undisclosed #3
Jun 27, 2016
IPVMU Certified

To be honest, I am not surprised...

Couple of years ago at least the odds of getting a picture were definitely in your favor:

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Mark Jones
Jun 27, 2016

Thanks 3. Some may look at that and say good. I look at that and say sad.

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Mark Jones
Jun 27, 2016

Stopped.

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